On meditation, the ego and the soul: an interview

An interview with Laurie Conrad by Diana Souza. Ithaca, New York.

Those interested in meditation and the spiritual life must first understand the nature of the ego and its relationship to the soul. Otherwise, the ego can disguise itself as a soul and take us off the spiritual path.

Q Laurie, could you comment on your words: “In this short lifetime, we are trying to align our little ego with the soul and its vision so that they work together as one.” Can you tell us about the basic difference between the ego and the soul?

I believe that one of the main goals of our life on earth is to align our personal vision with the vision of the soul. The vision of the soul is already very much aligned with the Divine, with the vision that God has for us. And yet here we are in this body that contains the ego. Ego, in the sense we are talking about now, means our entire perception. Any of our thoughts, anything we perceive is considered ego, which includes our perception that we are the body. So this definition of the word “ego” is a very different definition of ego from the man on the street, or even a psychologist’s definition of ego.

To say that our true goal is to align with the soul’s vision is to say that our true goal while on earth is to find the soul and align with it. Being there, identifying with the soul. Although we are in this human body, with its physical brain that gives us thoughts and our perceptions of the world. This ego would lead us to believe that we are the body and that the physical world around us is the ultimate reality, the only reality. Those ideas are given to us by the human vehicle, the perception of the human brain. On the spiritual path, we are trying to go beyond that perception, we are trying to identify with the soul instead of identifying with Laurie Conrad or Diana Souza.

Q So the soul is the part of us that belongs to the divine forces, the divine reality, the higher reality?

A The soul is actually our true self. It is that radiant, self-radiant part of us that exists here on earth, but will also exist after our life on earth, in other realms. Still alive. He is immortal in that sense. He will live for eternity, eternally.

Q So anything we can do to clarify our connection to our soul is an achievement we can claim for eternity?

A Well, the idea of ​​enlightenment, or holiness, is really twofold. One is that you can better help others on earth. You can help people like a saint in ways you could never help as a kind but ego-oriented human being. In an enlightened being, a saint, that connection with the Divine is so strong and so constant that one could say that the saint is the spokesman for the Divine. That Divinity is coming through the saints, it is radiating from them to the world.

In terms of our own personal reasons for seeking enlightenment, holiness, or liberation, being liberated means that we are liberated from the cares of earth. You can have heaven on earth. You don’t have to wait until you die and go to heaven to be in heaven, to be in that Divine Presence, that Divine refuge. You can have that while you are still here on earth.

If you study the lives of the saints of any religion, they didn’t really care where they were or what their assigned task was. They didn’t care because they were living, they were enveloped by this Divine presence. And there is no other way, I don’t think there is any other way to truly live with a capital T. The true Life that Christ and the prophets speak of. Otherwise, we will be constantly falling into our emotions, our thoughts and the negativity that surrounds us and within ourselves. We are not really going to find happiness or peace. True Life is something that most people could not even imagine.

Q So emotions, thoughts and negativity, are they all part of what the ego gives itself?

A Well, the ego actually encourages and produces them. Those thoughts and emotions are not our true self or state. If you read the writings of any of the saints of the various religions, they will all say, in one way or another, and in their own vocabulary, that our true and natural state is the pure state of the soul. We have simply forgotten, or this truth is hidden from us. They will also say that this physical reality is not the ultimate reality.

Q. So how would you suggest to the reader of this interview to get their ego out of the way so they can get in touch with their soul? Meditation, prayer?

A Meditation, prayer is always a good answer. But as we mentioned earlier, understanding the nature of the ego and having spiritual practices to help reduce it can also be very helpful. Philosophical training can speed up the process. The philosophical study helps the meditations and the life of prayer. Prayer life and meditation help your study. It speeds up your progress and can also prevent you from making some mistakes along the way. There are many traps along the way. It’s not hard to take a wrong turn and go in the wrong direction for a while.

Q Those who haven’t meditated yet think it’s a boring exercise. However, in that emptying of the mind of normal thoughts arises the opportunity for a true mystical experience.

A Yes. Thoughts actually get in the way of mystical experience. Except for prayer, you could call all your thoughts distraction. We are so caught up in our thoughts, which then cause emotions that lead to actions. And that’s most of our lives, that’s how we live our lives. When we set aside a certain amount of time each day for meditation, we are trying to let the mind settle down. And in that stillness can come the mystical experience. I don’t know if there is another way to get there. I have never heard of one, unless you have a very deep prayer life. If most of your life is prayer, then you are essentially meditating.

I think from the outside, watching someone sit there for forty-five minutes or an hour without moving might seem like a boring exercise. When we have those inner connections with our own soul or with the Divine itself, it is an inner experience. It will not show from the outside, because you are enriching the inner life. If you can stay in the spiritual heart or that spiritual place in the head while in meditation or contemplation, and be there deeply, new worlds can open up for you. New awarenesses, and the experience is anything but boring.

In fact, anyone who has ever had a deep meditation will tell you that there is no experience in the outer world of the waking state that can compare. And finding words for that experience, I think, would be next to impossible.

Q Since meditation is about sitting quietly and trying not to have thoughts?

A We would have to be careful about saying that. We don’t want people to read this interview and then empty their mind of thoughts and sit there for an hour. That is not meditation. In fact, that can be very dangerous. There is a specific technique for mental prayer, and that method should never be discussed in a book or interview, because meditation can be dangerous if you don’t have a good teacher.

If you just sit there and empty your mind of thoughts, not knowing how to meditate properly, then you will just be sitting there with your mind empty of thoughts. That is not the goal of meditation.

Q So you’re saying don’t try this at home?

A Do not try this on your own.

Q Open up to that degree and leave yourself exposed?

A Yes. You don’t want to sit there for an hour in a blank state. Saint Teresa of Avila, in one of her books, told a story about one of her fellow nuns. The nuns in the convent were happy and excited because one nun had been thought-free for nine hours. Santa Teresa simply scoffed at the fuss and said it was a useless achievement. All it meant was that the poor nun had sat there without thinking for nine hours.

Q Did Saint Teresa of Ávila not call meditation the prayer of stillness?

A Yes, and he also called it mental prayer or contemplation.

Q Although meditation in the conventional sense simply means concentrating on something, that’s not what you’re talking about either, is it?

A No, this is a specific technique currently used in monasteries and convents of many religions. And in most of those religions, only during our lifetime has it been made available to anyone outside of convents and monasteries.

Cuz I didn’t know that.

A It is the first time in the history of the world. Previously you had to be a nun or monk of some religion to receive these teachings. So we are very lucky.

Q: I wanted to tell you about someone I knew who criticized me for being a meditator. He said that “the last thing you should want to do is empty your mind.” He said, you know, “what good is an empty mind to you, you’re just going to become a lazy bum.”

A Well, I actually agree with that. Unless he is taught to meditate, he should not sit with a blank mind. That is not the path to spiritual enlightenment. But your friend would have to be taught to meditate, and then he would have to try it himself. You can’t just explain it to someone else. It is not explainable. We are talking about an inner life experience, a mystical experience.